Thursday, 7 June 2007

Heated debates!!!

Raja Petra wrote:

Dear cruzeiro and head hunter, the ISA is a legal law because the Constitution allows it. The ISA is an Act of Parliament (the Internal Security ACT). Well, there are many other ACTS of Parliament as well. One such ACT is the Sedition Act where if you insult Islam, the Prophet, the Malays (or any other race for that matter), the Rulers, etc. you can get arrested. However, if there is not enough evidence to charge you in court, (as DPM Najib said on TV3), then they can always use the ISA whereby you are detained when the government 'has reason to believe' (as the detention order is worded) that you are a 'threat to national security'. To charge you in court they need grounds. Under ISA they do not need grounds, only reason to believe. And this 'belief' is up to the Minister. As long as he believes that's all that matters. No grounds are required.

Public order is anything and everything that will de-stabilise this nation. If your comments in this Blog are perceived as de-stabilising this nation, then you too can be detained under the ISA. It is all about what you say which may cause one Malaysian to go out and kill/hurt another Malaysian. Some of you have called the Sultans pirates. That is seditious and you can get arrested. And if you challenge Umno Youth to brandish their keris in public and you will 'teach them a lesson' that too can warrant detention under the ISA because you may make Malays angry.

06/06 11:23:47

cruzeiro wrote:

I know the essence of it all.
true - charges just have to be hypothetical, as I wrote in response to farouk. that's what's so distasteful about it. However, the important thing right now is,
what's your alternative to maintain the peace and harmony on one hand, and stop the spread of segregation, polarisation, suspicion hatred etc., etc.,?

06/06 11:30:56

cruzeiro wrote:

Dear RPK Sir,
cut me some slack here, okay.
i believe, the only way that you can fight for abolishment of the ISA is first of all, by liberalising the education system, decreasing insulation of different ethnic groups and enhancing philosophical discussion in our institutions of learning.
people need to be able to understand their neighbours first, before they can trust them.
until and unless this can take place, they will play to the drumbeats of whichever leader is better at emotional manipulation.
So, what dr. Azly is trying to do on the other side, has to be the foundation of your struggle/ fight for the abolishment of ISA.
Yes, it is a law that leave a bitter taste. But at the moment, its need has been "amplified" by the increasing "islamophobia", ethnic polarisation and economic disparity.
uncalculated abolishment of ISA at present would probably open the "pandoras box", and further destabilize the nation.
"people" in Malaysia are still too gullible.
We are still very third-world in our mindset, with no tolerance for differences in opinion.
a step in the right direction towards "understanding" would be the Golden rule of "reciprocity" - "do unto others, as you would like them do unto you". (of course we would still need some form of "affimative action" policies to bridge the economic divide) - that is why I sent you the excerpt from "atlas shrugged".
I can bet my black ass that the non-muslims can be convinced that it is a good policy. do you think the muslims could reciprocate?

06/06 12:22:49

cruzeiro wrote:

gigidnl wrote:
........But Malaysia is made to be hell. Their people are fighting each other to own okay, just to own, not to nurture or develop what they have.
i know what you mean, just that you were too "dramatic" lah.
all nations go thru periods of introspection at one time or other. as a result, there may be some strife .... but that doesn't mean it is hell lah.
rome wasn't built in a day ..
there is no state that didn't have to change its policies as it matures - Malaysia is just one of those states that is going thru "teething problems". at the end of the day, it will be those who have sufficient courage to guide it along to maturity who will be recognized as patriots.
have faith.

06/06 13:42:59

cruzeiro wrote:

you can call me thambi, anney, anjing, babi or whatever doesn't hurt la.
the reason i choose to "bail out", isn't becos i don't respect your affiliations.
feel free to support whatever you like .... i only "bailed out" of the discussion - never stopped you from doing what you do best, or supporting the Islamic State.
keep it up. it is a good site.

Dear Yang Marah,
it is only becos, i do not believe in theocracies, and from experience, i really cannot talk much to those who believe in it.
it is my conviction that "in a roomful of politicians, the least trustworthy is one who needs to use the veil of religion/ god". it doesn't matter which religion. religion and politics don't mix. i say that today, and i'll say it the day i die.
you on the other hand, for reasons unknown to me have chosen to interpret it as an anti-malay/ anti-islam sentiment.
once again, feel free to do so - i have no right to object, nor do i wish to.
i only jumped to the conclusion that you wouldn't support an Islamic State, with a section called "Republic of Virtue" on the other side.

Hmmmmm. my mistake.

you wanna say Porah, bullshit, fuck it - go ahead if it makes your day.

Thank you & Peace.

07/06 16:36:23