This was the most hilarious debate that I was part of on Malaysia Today............
21/06: Understanding the Malay-Muslim mind
cruzeiro wrote:
Wahabbism must be real popular with all the militancy/violence/intolerance/murderous rage in almost all "muslim" dominated societies!
So violence and intolerence is becos of Wahabbism alone ...... that's new!
21/06 19:18:23
Raja Petra wrote:
zaki77 wrote:
It is your weakness of conviction if you think this is personal. Your writings are an evidence against you and when it comes to their faith, no practising Muslims would tolerate and allow people like you to get away with lying...
Dear zaki77, I always wondered what 'weakness of conviction' meant. Care to explain?
2) "Your writings are an evidence against you and when it comes to their faith" is another mind-boggler that I need you to help explain.
3) "no practising Muslims would tolerate and allow people like you to get away with lying..." I almost understand. It is the 'lying' part that I can't grasp. Please help me see the light by itemising the 'lies' in the article.
21/06 19:20:38
cruzeiro wrote:
Zaki,
Why so much "anger" and murderous rage among muslims?
dont give me the jewish conspiracy crap okay ...
21/06 19:47:21
Raja Petra wrote:
....To conclude may I say that the original purpose of Wahhabi'ism is to sow discord among Muslims and to bring Islam into disrepute. Same old "divide and conquer" strategy in a new guise?
Dear Pak Maun, did they by any chance succeed?
21/06 19:51:59
badshah wrote:
zaki77 represents masses of muslims who are inflicted by seige mentality virus...like that usatazah in anon story.
zaki....read more books...hopefully your worldview will change
21/06 20:06:30
kadir wrote:
Dear Raja,
I have earlier posted an entry denouncing the interpretations of the Saudi family, but as it seems from your input and subsequent defence to some inputs, there is no intellectualism on your part, but rather it is descending to a low levl of nothing but Salafi bashing. I have no interest in Salafism as an ideology, but like the way a Wahhabi {I hate to quote Reuters/AP definitions, after they were ones who created} defends his position whether right or wrong is the way you are defending your position though it may be wrong/right. Therefore, you will have to accept that your input here is one dimensional where you are exhibiting strong aversion to people who subscrbe to Wahhabism.
It is Allah the Almighty Who knows the Truth but I don't think we can be better people by being judgemental as far as between Muslims is concerned. To attack a certain ideology doesn't help Malays to be better people. To advise one another and simply point out certain pertinet issues is different from what I can see from the article and the subsequent blood letting Wahhabi bashing. Islam Hadhari is another project, and all these are political manouvres by their ownsers for survival rather than true representation of Islam. But to be honest, there is one thing I utterly dislike: borrowing the language of non-Muslims in attacking Arabs and from the article, there is such language. Even though we may have diferent cultures and view things differently, in the long run Arabs are our brethren and we need to love each other.
21/06 20:07:51
zaki77 wrote:
.
Raja Petra wrote:
>> I always wondered what 'weakness of conviction' meant. Care to explain?
You are supposed to be the 'writer' here aren't you? I used this phrase in the specific context where you are not comfortable (or even competent) enough to produce hard-hitting analysis and knowledge/evidence-based write-up.
>> 2) "Your writings are an evidence against you and when it comes to their faith" is another mind-boggler that I need you to help explain.
Why did you omit the remainder of the sentence? 'Your writings are an evidence against you' means we judge the depth of your understanding in how you grappl with the issues you try to write about. You are judged by what you write and so far, they seem to reflect a lacklustre approach than a serious scholarly disposition.
>> 3) "no practising Muslims would tolerate and allow people like you to get away with lying..." I almost understand. It is the 'lying' part that I can't grasp. Please help me see the light by itemising the 'lies' in the article.
Glad to see you are at least trying to find the errors of your way. Here is a little clarification from your piece above:
- 'After you understand how the Malay mind works, meaning Muslim mind of course'
Since when is 'Malay' synonymous with Muslim? On one hand you whine about Lina's case and how this is a travesy of human rights and on the other you are still happy to lump all Malays to be Muslim? A culture or a whole people cannot be described as 'Muslim' because there are invariably to occur practises and beliefs which are no Muslim.
- 'Ideologies are never at fault'
Islam is NOT an ideology as such, and certainly not one that can be compared to Communism as you tried to do. Unlike any 'theory', Islam has walked the talk and practically applied itself. It is it's sources and the example of the earliest Muslim societies that you conveniently do not talk about. This leads to an age old classic mistake of judging something by those who claim to be adherents of it rather than judging it by it's sources and how far the 'adherents' have failed to understand and apply them.
- 'Islam, to the Malays, is basically Arabisation'.
Please see previous post.
- 'At one point the Saudi Arabian ulama (religious scholars) refused to allow aeroplanes to land in Saudi Arabia because they considered it un-Islamic seeing that there was no such thing in the time of the Prophet.'
Where is your evidence for this and Who were these 'ulama'?
- 'Why is the Saudi Arabian version of Islam so intolerant?'
This is not a question but a statement. By trying to disguise your ignorance about the reality of Saudi Arabia, you have made your pre-determined agenda into a question that is a misnomer. Let me explain... If I was to ask you the following question: "Is your mother out of prison yet?" - What would your response be? This is the kind of mental gymnastics we expect antagonists and orientalists to use.
- 'Wahhabi Islam did not always exist'
'Wahhabi Islam' has never existed and I challenge you to prove that any Muslim calls himself a Wahhabi in the same manner as any other Muslim aptly applied terms like 'Sufi' or 'Deobandi' or 'Bareilwi' to him/herself?
- 'His students and followers called themselves mujahideen'
Incorrect, they called themselves 'Muhawideen', and this term was not exclusive to those who appreciated his efforts. Please check and cross-reference.
.
21/06 20:22:03
zaki77 wrote:
.
- 'Al-Wahhab’s interpretation of Islam is that Islam is militant and political and that is how Islam must be propagated'
LOL, Abdul Wahhab was a proponent of the Hambali school of thought and he described his way as the way of the Salaf (i.e. the Ahlul Haddeth). He never taught jihad (in the true sense of the word) without indocrinating the masses with the fundamental values of Tawheed and the pillars of Islam. Jihad was never seen as a mandatory obligation in all places at all times. As for political, it is well known from the earlist times that Islam is a complete/comprehensive way that incorporates every spehere of one's life. Politics is merely an aspect of Islam and not vice versa.
- 'Monuments were destroyed, graves desecrated (including shrines of saints)'
Shrines and sainthood has no real place in Islam and although I don't want to get into intricate details about it's illegality, you fail to mention why these monuments were destroyed and graves levelled? By hiding the reasons behind Abdul Wahhab's actions is in itself an act of deceit and hence lying?
- 'Most Malays actually have no inkling about the history or origins of Wahhabi Islam'
Because such a term does not exist on ground reality:
http://www.al-islami.com/is...
By clafiying the facts of the misnomer that is 'Wahhabism' does not mean I accept and am part of them. What you need to do is learn about the Khawarij (Khawarij'ite) ideology. This will make you realise how you have falled into the same trap as many others who try to confuse Salafi/Ahlul Hadeeth methodology to that of this exteme and bloody sect. Here is a starting point:
http://www.thewahhabimyth.com/
I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume these lies were unintentional.
Adios.
.
21/06 20:22:20
Raja Petra wrote:
Dear kadir, please give me a couple of days to figure out what you are saying and if I can achieve that I will respond to your posting.
21/06 20:25:02
cruzeiro wrote:
But to be honest, there is one thing I utterly dislike: borrowing the language of non-Muslims in attacking Arabs and from the article, there is such language. Even though we may have diferent cultures and view things differently, in the long run Arabs are our brethren and we need to love each other.
===============================
yeah baby, love them, suck up to them, give it all up for them ..... they would screw you so fast that you'd be high on getting screwed, before even the conspiring Jew would!
21/06 20:25:28
kadir wrote:
cruzerio wrote:
yeah baby, love them, suck up to them, give it all up for them ..... they would screw you so fast that you'd be high on getting screwed, before even the conspiring Jew would!
................................
Thanks for your convenient opinion. I hope you will be a better person by posing as grandiose who explains to us Muslims what we can do with our very lives. For me saying that as much as I don't agree with some traditions of Arabs, it doesn't give me the right to hate them and you getting jittery at that explains the amount of hate that burns in your heart. However, as Henry Emerson said, "hating people is like burning down your own house to get rid of a rat,". It is you who in the long run will explode bcoz hate boomerangs on its owner and as Eldridge Cleaver said, "The price of hating other human beings is loving oneself less." One simple fact though, I have the right to love and respect whoever I wish much as you can only that I don't have the audacity, buffoonery and intellectual penury of pple of your ilk wo try lord on pple as if they are their guardians.
21/06 20:31:59
Raja Petra wrote:
Dear zaki77 and kadir, I think you are just strengthening the opinion that Muslims have this chip-on-the-shoulder, superiority complex towards non-Muslims attittude problem. Rhetoric very seldom convinces non-Muslims about the greatness of Islam. Walking the talk would probably achieve more.
21/06 20:39:59
cruzeiro wrote:
kadir wrote:
One simple fact though, I have the right to love and respect whoever I wish much as you can only that I don't have the audacity, buffoonery and intellectual penury of pple of your ilk wo try lord on pple as if they are their guardians.
========================
point noted.
why stop at arabs .... love everybody!
to love them is indeed virtuous - never told you not to, never lorded over nobody, nor have I pretended to be nobody's guardians.
nor do I hate them. just that from experience, i know very well, their capacity for "logic" and justice!
but mind you, it is they who would've taught you to hate by now, as expressed in your vitriol!
21/06 20:51:44
cruzeiro wrote:
but of course there are exceptions lah .... these things are just generalisations (which of course can be a little unfair) of the particular culture/ race.
no reason for offence - you could dislike my biased opinion, though!
21/06 20:56:29
kadir wrote:
cruizero wrote:
why stop at arabs .... love everybody!
...............................
Dear cruizero, I'm obliged to love everybody. Even thye Jews you talked about as conspirators who will come for my neck before "Arabs screw me" as you said, I'm obliged to love them. There was a day a Jew's coffing was being carried and the procession passed before the assembly of Prophet Muhammad {pbuh}, then he stood in respect. His Companions said, why? He is an enemy, a Jew who has been fighting you. The Prophet answered: "Isn't it a soul."
Now, I love everyone but why I refered to Arabs specifically was because the whole article was about Arabs and Arabinisation. Therefore, how can I digress into other issues and people? The writer started the subject like this: "Islam, to the Malays, is basically Arabisation...", so all the comments were abou that, whether in support or otherwise.
21/06 21:01:10
cruzeiro wrote:
"superiority complex towards non-Muslims attittude problem."
==========================
No offense intended, but I think it is more of an expression of "Arab inferiority" complex, as a result of international "political impotency" and being humiliated by the small Jewish community.
It is often those who suffer from inferiority complex, who need to "assert superiority", failing which it evolves and progresses into anger/ rage etc.
that is exactly what is happening.
21/06 21:07:26
cruzeiro wrote:
The Prophet answered: "Isn't it a soul."
=========================
Pity This Jew wasn't alive to be loved by the prophet ...... poor soul.
21/06 21:13:42
kadir wrote:
cruzeiro wrote:
Pity This Jew wasn't alive to be loved by the prophet ...... poor soul.
.....................................
I hope you are positive, therefore we give you the benefit of doubt.
.................
About this Jew thing you are talking about, I can't get the relevance here. Wahhabism is not about Arab humiliation. It started when Jews were almost non-exsistent. The article remains attached to Islam's interpretation not Jewish/Arab conflict as you would like to insinuate.
21/06 21:20:30
kadir wrote:
zaki77 wrote:
You don't have to agree with me and this is part and parcel of healthy disagreements.
............................
Absolutely. We disagree to disagree but we respect each other and love each other. After all, the disagreement is simply related to an act of love in the 1st place. I mean by this, all of us say we love Islam and Allah SW therefore we want to live His orders and teachings and bcoz of this love which may vary in degrees, comes certain differences as we say we want to be good Muslims according to Allah's will. However, all of us have to come down and listen to each other. Where we can't agree, we will agree on the fact that hate or seeking non-Muslims support against fellow muslims is out the question and utterly un-Islamic.
About Raja Petra,
I love him very much and appreciate his enormous work. The only thing is that he has to understand that the overwhelming response to religious topics comes from non-Muslims and basically they have misconcieved ideas or outright hate {in some cases{, therefore, from what I have seen, from the onset, Raja tries to please them whenever he handles a religious topic. As much as I want Muslims and Malays to be berated and bashed for the poor state of affairs, it takes two hands to make a clap. Therefore we want him to tear into others also so that they don't think they are good always when they are not. Expose their enmity {in some cases}, shortcomings and failures much as you do to us Malays and Muslims.
It was Calipha Omar who said, I have thought of all good deeds but I couldn't get anything better than a good advice. In this case, whenever Petra tears into Malays and Muslims, we need at the end of the article a reaffirmation point that sooothes all of us and gives us a sense of belonging and brotherhood, but everyday, we can't stand Malay bashing and ideological wars. It hurts and this leads to many pple dislking Islam and Muslims. Raja has to understand that Malays are not good in engaging hard arguments {in some cases}, so when they see many statements bashing Islam and Mulims, they just give up and even drift further. This calls for fair judgement. Show the shortcoming andcrooked ideas and hate of others as well. It will be a win-win situations and many Malays will try to change but when we simply potray as stupid bunch who know nothing, it gives others the unfettered right to bash Islam and Muslims and to understand that, you simply need to read the inputs of the bloggers here.
21/06 21:37:00
cruzeiro wrote:
LPN wrote:
You guys really don't know Arabs and their Islam religion. Here in moderate and modern UAE - you try praying in their mosque and see what happens.
===========================
kadir, pls note.
21/06 21:52:19
kadir wrote:
cruizero requested that I shul note LPN's statement which read like this:
You guys really don't know Arabs and their Islam religion. Here in moderate and modern UAE - you try praying in their mosque and see what happens..
..................................
Well, dear cruz, as I said b4, everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. To be either wrong/right will be decided by the bloggers. But he didn't insult Arabs. He brought out a feeling of superiority complex which I denounce since arrogance in un-Islamic. Moreover, I dont agree with whatever Arabs/Americans/Malays/Somalis/Brazilians may do or have done. What I object to is generalisation and sweeping condemnation. If Some Arabs for example distort the teachings of Islam or are arrogant, that doesn't mean they are all bad boys. Likewise every other pple. This is the important note. I have been to Arabia much as I was to the West, and every society has its cultural prejudices but to be honest, I have not seen being shoed out of mosque but I was embraced.
In UAE, according to the interior ministry, the overwhelming Imams of UAE's mosques are of non-Emirates, so how will you be shoed out when even the natives are following a non-UAE Imam? These are cheap stories meant simply to dent other pple's image with no hard proofs. About the moderate Islam he talked about, I don't understand moderate Islam like the way I don't unerstand what Islam Hadhari means. Probably former nun and "freelanc monotheist" British author, Dr. Karen Armstrong knows better when she defined moderate Islam as the "West's wanting a less bit of Islam." I'm a Muslim by Identity, a Malay by race, Islam by faith and a human being who cherishes all. No one has the right to define me except myself or ourselves as Muslims.
21/06 22:45:51
Raja Petra wrote:
zaki77 wrote: 'Wahhabi Islam' has never existed and I challenge you to prove that any Muslim calls himself a Wahhabi in the same manner as any other Muslim aptly applied terms like 'Sufi' or 'Deobandi' or 'Bareilwi' to him/herself?
Dear zaki77, in 1973, Sheikh Muhammad ibn Ibrahim, the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, asked that “Saudi Arabia lead the Arab world” and that “Wahhabism should be exported”. King Faisal set up the Muslim World League and provided it with USD50 million to launch the program. Soon after, the World Assembly of Muslim Youth (WAMY) was set up. In Malaysia, ABIM was set up and which was funded by and associated with WAMY. Its office is still in Ampang, KL, till today.
I trust you will accept this as my ‘proof’ you challenged me to produce.
21/06 22:53:18
anon wrote:
Dear RPK Sir,
THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH.
You have without a doubt proven that I am indeed right .... Islam does not profess anything negative.
Like I said and now confirmed by you, it's the pitiful, pathetic Malay Muslim who twists the teachings of Islam to suit his/her need and greed and there lies the problem.
And you are absolutely right. I do pity these Malays and their version of Islam which took them to the alleyway of ignorance.
They are indeed throughly a confused bunch preaching their version of Islam believing that they are right and all others are kafirs including Malay Muslims who do not subscribe to their twisted version of Islam.
I honestly feel sorry for these pathetic misled misfits.
You have just provided me with more confidence to pursue what I am doing.
If anyone here or elswhere disputes RPK's explanation which to me is absolutely logical, ( if you do have a logical and analytical mind ) that person ( or persons ) is certainly not a Malay Muslim, neither is his/her religion Islam. YOU are the kafir. Your befuddled brain refuses to see the TRUTH.
I thank you RPK Sir for shedding light on what Islam really is. I believe you have not just enlightened me but many others as well.
sincerely yours,
anon
Raja Petra wrote:
kadir wrote: Dear cruizero, I'm obliged to love everybody. Even the Jews you talked about as conspirators who will come for my neck before "Arabs screw me" as you said, I'm obliged to love them.
Dear Kadir, King Faisal, who drew ‘inspiration’ from Sheikh Ibrahim bin Muhammad Al al-Sheikh, the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, said, “The word of God teaches us, and we implicitly believe this, that for a Muslim to kill a Jew, or for him to be killed by a Jew, ensures him an immediate entry in Heaven and into the august presence of God Almighty.”
21/06 23:03:57
Raja Petra wrote:
Dear iamnotok, please stop your rhetoric. Do you think non-Muslims buy what you are saying? That is not the way to convince non-Muslims of the virtues of Islam. You are just making matters worse by making them think that Muslims are nuts. Tone down and engage in intelligent discussion.
21/06 23:08:04
suv wrote:
Good lord goyim cruzeiro..wanna know the religion of the orthodox jews?
Intereresting debate.carry on.
21/06 23:13:10
kadir wrote:
Raja Petra wrote:
Dear Kadir, King Faisal, who drew ‘inspiration’ from Sheikh Ibrahim bin Muhammad Al al-Sheikh, the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, said, “The word of God teaches us, and we implicitly believe this, that for a Muslim to kill a Jew, or for him to be killed by a Jew, ensures him an immediate entry in Heaven and into the august presence of God Almighty.”
.................................
This is an opinion much as former Israel Cheif Rabbi said 2 weeks ago that "Judaism sanctions the killing of all Palestinians since they are enemies." Or the words of Commonwealth Cheif Rabbi who said in Australia last yr that "God only made contarct with the Jews!. These are opinions and therefore they can't represent Islam or a true Idenity of humanness.
But if you are insinuating that this is Wahhabism {hating Jews}, then in truth you are dead wrong bocz the rulinf famly is a good friend of the Jewish Lobby AIPAC and King Abdullah who was described by Western media as fanatical is the one who is spearheading Israel recognition in return for the land. This position is against the street position across the Arab world. For you to insist on the notion that Wahhabism become a religion and that Malays are fools who are following it is utterly misconcived bcoz it is a political ideology like the Arabs who say we are related to the Prophet {pbuh} and call their kingdoms Hashemite. It is cheap bocz they know Muslims love Muhammad {pbuh} so they play with pples sentiments. Likewise secularism in Turkiye. Secularism in Turkey is so oppressive that you will prefer to live in Mynamar. It serves few elite and the milatary junta who define it in a bizzare and baffling way. In fact EU called it yesterday "dangerous secularism." Likewise the ruling and the oppressive Saudi family plays with pple's sentiments by always initiating religious arguments and knwing that they never end, they keep pple at bay like that. Islam is one and we can disagree on many issues but this doesn't mean all of us are doctors who dissect Islam, neither is it a blanket amnesty for everyone to invent his own ideas and say Islam has no problem with that. Islam has central ideas and teachings. And whether we live in Malaysia, Chile, Mali, South Africa or Siberia, it will be known whether it is wrong or right.
22/06 00:12:11
kadir wrote:
Those who are linking terror to Islam, then what about Bush and Blair and Aznar? Wht abou the "Christian bombs" and the Guantenamo freedom? Read this heartrending stories and shattered lives bcoz of ".." terrorism. i don't buy the idea that Islam is militant while other religions are peaceful. That one even the unborn knows and the bombs that destroy humanity in the four winds are not from the Muslim world.
Poems scratched on paper cups and written with toothpaste by detainees at Guantanamo will soon be out in a book, giving in rare insight into their harrowing dilemma and fading hopes, The Independent reported on Thursday, June 21 http://www.islamonline.net/...
British honoured pple refusing to take honours bcoz of the evil of Blair and greed.
http://news.independent.co....
22/06 00:26:44
anon wrote:
anon wrote:
RPK in his second last paragraph wrote:
And let me assure you that what I have written here will be disputed by 99% of Malays who will accuse me of running down Islam.
----------------------------------------
Simply because the TRUTH is an extremely bitter pill to swallow.
Being fed with pills that cater to their whims and fancies, now they discover the TRUTH pill.
Very difficult for them to accept and swallow the pill.
You myopic Malay Muslims can argue till the cows come home but now I am happy and convinced that you are living in a self denial world.
Man I feel good that finally I know that I was always right, that Islam does not teach bad things.
To be honest, I was a little bemused in the beggining. I even lashed out at all these different 'authors' and I did pass a comment on why are there various versions of Islam.
A little later, I was just sitting back and laughing when these different 'characters' were actually quoting verses from the Quran. I thought to myself, what a bunch of dopes fighting against each other about the same religion, each one thinking his is the TRUE Islam.
The point is, what they said had no impact on me as I found it all to be shallow arguments.
It's these sanctimonious, pretentious ignoramuses who are truly under the delusion that their warped version of Islam is the right one and actually expect other Muslims to follow them.
Strangely, I am now actually glad. Happy that RPK has proven my version ( ok lah a kafir's version to you Wahhabis ) to be true.
Cheers.
22/06 00:30:42
FrenchFriedTacos wrote:
cruzeiro said:
Why so much "anger" and murderous rage among muslims?
-----------------------------------------
It's a "Zionist conspiracy" to give them all high blood pressure at a young age so they die sooner. Just to counteract their high breeding rate.
Here's a healthy sampling of Islamic rage worldwide:
http://www.snappedshot.com/...
Here are the latest rounds of Islamic Rage directed at the knighting of Rushdie...look at the second link, you will find that we've got a strong contender for a Malaysian version of Islamic Rage Boy:
http://www.snappedshot.com/...
http://www.snappedshot.com/...
Not sure who Islamic Rage Boy is? He is the new icon of popular Muslim lifestyle:
http://www.snappedshot.com/...
Wahhabism or not, the problem with Muslims has reached epic proportions and it has to eventually be dealt with in one way or another.
Problem is, the longer it drags out, the less tasteful the solution is going to be.
22/06 01:12:54
kadir wrote:
Those who find solace in bashing Malays and Islam bcoz many articles provided by Raja Petra deal with these two topics would have to understand that that doesn't mean they have the moral authority to bash them. As much as they are in stampede to inflict harm on the status of Islam and monstroulsy disparage the Malays, the fact that Raja ignores their religions and bizzare traditions is a testimony that handling them will lead to disaster more than it will produce results. As a Malay and a Muslim, I'm happy that we disagree as Muslims. For me, disagreements is one basic right in Islam and criticism is heavenly. Even the Holy Prophet {pbuh} was criticsed by Allah. {Human beings can't}. I believe that exposing our shortcomings will lead to better evaluation and engagements and thus better results. I appreciate positive criticism and hard advice but hate is another thing altogether.
That said, I have ONE advice to Raja, MalaysiaToday can't be a platform for animals like FrenchTacos and other hostile, abhorrent, ill, pugnacious, belligerent, loathsome, repellent and detestable elements who display a strong aversion to Islam and Malays to vomit on our shoes. There is no one who is perfect, BUT from today, I expect fair coverage of all religions and mindsets of others as well. I expect you to explain the political intracacies that dictate the state of affairs that we find ourselves in. I expect you to explain the double standards of others and their inhuman nature typically like abhorrent elements like Tacos. I expect you to explain to the amatuer readers all other issues: religious, political, economical, spiritual, cultural, media coverage of all issues, terms invented for Muslims, colonialis, neo-colonialim, revivalism, religious strife, foreign intervention, humanitaria aids, palestinian case, political oppression, greed, corruption in east/west, human rights in east/west and many other pressing issues that will make others appreciates the bigger pictures of what we have for example in Malaysia/USA or any other outpost be it Saudi or Sudan or Senegal.
22/06 04:30:25
kadir wrote:
nocturnal wrote:
Why is MOST of the Muslim countries in SOME kind of conflict where ppl are being massacred? (no conspiracy theories pls)
..............................
In a war and death, you can't rule out conspiracies. Death is a conspiracy and for you to refuse to accept conspiracy theory is to refuse to accept legitimate reasons. Today the worst death toll is found in Iraq, do I need to explain anything about the reality is Iraq? And all other countries is basically related to that. Whether Afghanistan or Sudan or Somalia. Simle facts known to anyone who seeks the truth.
22/06 04:42:28
kadir wrote:
casper c ,
Pliz note that Irshad Manji's rants are of no value to any Muslim whoever he/she is. I wish you have known many things. In fact, I don't feel obliged to say even little about what kind of Irshad Manji is. Pliz don't quote Irshad Manji in support of any point bcoz it doesn't help. Animals like Manji can't help themselves b4 they help others. Lets leave her enjoy her marriage to another woman as she claims and calling the Quran "bloody passages" that are "human fabrication" and dismissing the prayers "signs of fooloishness and submission",
22/06 07:49:11
FrenchFriedTacos wrote:
kadir said:
...animals like FrenchTacos and other hostile, abhorrent, ill, pugnacious, belligerent, loathsome, repellent and detestable elements who display a strong aversion to Islam and Malays to vomit on our shoes.
------------------------------------------
Patently ridiculous!
It is completely preposterous to even suggest that I have an aversion towards Malays.
I am not to be faulted for your pigeon-holed, compartmentalized and existentially-challenged mindset.
22/06 08:11:28
FrenchFriedTacos wrote:
Kadir, kadir....
If the problems that Irshad Manji highlighted does not resonate within you and all you can respond with is a personal attack on the author, then you have truly demonstrated what a typical sand-buggering Arab lout you and your ilk are.
It is actually quite amusing to see an entire socio-culture (as Farouk puts it) self-destruct in slow motion.
22/06 08:31:37
kadir wrote:
FrenchTacos wrote:
then you have truly demonstrated what a typical sand-buggering Arab lout you and your ilk are.
...................................
Pseudo intellectualism in its ugly form. Your cheap stuff that u don't hate Malays doesn't grant you a safer exit. Mind you, Malays stand for Muslims and whether FrenchTacos dislikes Islam and Muslims, then I don't even need to be a human being to know that. This Arab lousy mentality you talked about is a testimony of your intellectual posturing and penury that thinks it can win by quoting few garbled sotries provided by statues of hate who thrive in Arab bashing. Get a real life dear as Arab bashing doesn't build better bridges neither does it make Arabs look like bad boys in the eyes of Bush and Blair who know how to deal with their corruption! I'm not obliged to prove the corrupt dealing of Bush and Blair with corrupt Arab leaders and how they stand on the way of all investigations.
If the problems that Irshad Manji highlighted does not resonate within you and all you can respond with is a personal attack on the author,
........................................
Oh! I don't need to know that pple of ur calibre shul be selfless promoters of the shoddy works of lesbians like Manji who like you is driven by vendetta and cupidity. People of mutual bargains share the same destinty. The schizophrenic crisis of Manji and her PR accomplices of the mindsets of Tacos typify what's wrong with supercilious and haughty elements that seem to be suffering from terminal diseases that shatter human beings ability to conquer illness. Despite that, I didn't insult Manji in my earlier input as crapulent elements like you preach. All what I said is that I don't agree with her and typically that applies to all Muslims including the CAIR, ISNA, CBM and Canadian Muslim Council who all took the same position in relation to the wildposturing of avaricious elements like Manji who suffered a shattered childhood innocence and destroyed dreams as she wrote in her contumelious book.
However, you dust the road for lesbians and gays like her bcoz for her like your case, the solution is Islam obliterating since "Islam is the problem". The only thing venomous lot of your ilk don't comrehend is that Islam doesn't slow down for the harangue, grandiloquence and the claptrap of a lost marauding lot that ceaselessly tries to gain a foothold by unremettingly spitting on others. Islam would have ground to a half if venom spitting as in ur case was effective.
Hate boomrangs on its owner and Islam doesn't get hidden bcoz of Tacos and his wild accomplices. I do appreciate that we have many ills and I demand them to be corrected, but that applies to everyone and every society, only that pixilated elements of Tacos mindset believes that Islam and Muslims are the only problem therefore the need to fumigate them. Thanks for your unequalled enlightenment and intelligenstia.
22/06 09:07:16
FrenchFriedTacos wrote:
kadir said:
Mind you, Malays stand for Muslims...
---------------------------------------
Like I said. Pigeon-holed, compartmentalized, and existentially-challenged mindset.
I might add mentally retarded as well.
Perfect example of the stillborn mind stuck in a 1400 year old cocoon.
22/06 10:17:22
kadir wrote:
F.tacos wrote:
Perfect example of the stillborn mind stuck in a 1400 year old cocoon.
........................................
I love it. But only when it fits purblind and obtuse elements like you who all along have been positioned to act as other pple's guardians. Your case is beyond salvation point and that's why the heart of a fool is in his mouth rather than is in his heart. However, as Josh Billings said: "Take all the fools out of this world and there wouldn't be any fun living in it, or profit", we enjoy your ludicrous posturing and unequalled imbecility and preposterousness.
malays are Muslims by choice and they are never feel inferior to proudly exhibit that notion. They respect other pple but they don't quit Islam bcoz mossbacked elements like Tacos see them as stupids for believing in their faith of choice. If Malays are fools who are stuck in the mud of 1,400, I guess the ones whom your lick their asses but subcsribe earlier traditions are wiser. All is a testimony of the mentality of benighted elements who stubbornly see it my way lest bombs.
"Who is better in speech than one who calls (men) to Allah, works righteousness, and says, "I am of those who bow in Islam"? {Holy Qur'an 41:33}
Glory be to God
22/06 10:41:02
kadir wrote:
Raja wrote:
Anyway, since this article has attracted so much controversy, maybe I should write 'part 2' so that we can all see what these Wahhabi Kings and Princes are really like. They make the Romans look like saints.
..................................
I hope it will be an enlightening piece that calls for mutual co-exsistence and Muslim brotherhood rather than an attack as the language smacks of. I can see you girding for a duel and a blood letting warfare. If we fight Wahhabis bcoz their idelogy is different [i.e from ours], we don't progress. Engagement is better so that we build bridges and close ranks, after all everyone [group] has certain problems and shortcomings. For me, Wahhabism is a political ideolgy rathar than Islam and you have to concentrate on that like any other ideology. Saudi ruling family is hardly Islamic and oppression is heir symbol but th street people are nice and humane. However, bashing them [Wahabis] not only confuses many readers but it gives unfettered rights to many non- Muslim "animals" who delight in insulting Malays to vomit on our shoes. I want pple to benefit from your articles and also defend Islam rather than leading to confusion and widening the chasm. Peace be upon you dear Raja.
22/06 10:46:33
Raja Petra wrote:
kadir wrote:
...malays are Muslims by choice....
Yeah, right.
...They respect other pple....
Hmm...and they rape, strangle, shoot and blow people up with C4 out of respect for people.
...and they are never feel inferior....
And that's why they need the NEP because they don't feel inferior.
Dear Kadir, utopia and reality and two different things.
22/06 10:46:45
FrenchFriedTacos wrote:
Kadir said:
But only when it fits purblind and obtuse elements like you who all along have been positioned to ACT AS OTHER PPLE'S GUARDIANS.
...malays are Muslims BY CHOICE
-----------------------------------------
Do you enjoy shoving the proverbial foot into your mouth or are you just trying hard to work up a gag reflex to regurgitate more nonsense?
Please keep commenting. My finest moments on MT are when I successfully bait Muslim blowhards like yourself into demonstrating just how idiotic you blokes really are.
22/06 10:51:04
kadir wrote:
Hmm...and they rape, strangle, shoot and blow people up with C4 out of respect for people.
....................................
All socities do these and commit heinous crimes like this. It hurts that the actions of few pple shul be made the benchmark of what an entire society stands for. Such sweeping condemnation and Malay bashing doesn't help dear Raja.
22/06 10:52:54
Raja Petra wrote:
kadir wrote:
Such sweeping condemnation and Malay bashing doesn't help dear Raja.
Dear kadir, exactly! I am demonstrating how defective sweeping statement can be.
22/06 10:54:50
kadir wrote:
Tacos wrote:
Please keep commenting.
....................................
At the height of desperation. I can understand your consolation.
My finest moments on MT are when I successfully bait MUSLIMS into demonstrating just how idiotic they really are.
.......................................
It is befitting that you to hover around the hackeneyed cliche of attacking idiocy to Muslims simply that they adore their faith and instituitions. Your ilk see paved roads of other pple and judge Muslims as fools with sweeping condemnation that smacks of a baseborn child subjected to horros and thus feels shattered by all. It was calton who said that as no roads are so rough as those that have just been mended, so no sinners are so intolerant as those that have just turned saints.
22/06 10:58:26
FrenchFriedTacos wrote:
kadir said:
...but it gives unfettered rights to many non- Muslim "animals"
-----------------------------------------
Come on! Be loud and proud and describe it as your Hadiths say:
Apes and Pigs.
Why so shy all of a sudden? If you want to prove that your kind are the modern day Nazis, do it properly, not in a half-assed manner.
22/06 10:58:43
FrenchFriedTacos wrote:
Methinks somebody is trying to come across as more polished in his use of the English language than he is capable of.
22/06 11:00:53
kadir wrote:
Raja wrote:
Dear kadir, exactly! I am demonstrating how defective sweeping statement can be.
...........................
How? Like? I agree with the exsistence of problems but we have to know that Malays don't mean collective thing/mentality/action and so on. Policies are different from realities. The other thing you need to understand is that few of us who are against UMNO/PAS policies but are proud of Islam and Muslims are engaging/counter attacking pple who are simply engaging in unending wars to bash Malays and Muslims. Such statements simply justify the spirit of the moment rather than principles.
22/06 11:01:35
kadir wrote:
Why so shy all of a sudden? If you want to prove that your kind are the modern day Nazis, do it properly, not in a half-assed manner
....................................
I know my faith so I don't need your ilk to act as a guardian to teach me. One thing I don't know is pigs and apes. But zionism sends an amateur like you to drag pple into all sorts of filthy ware as if everything is about its own survival due to an inherent feeling of besiege.
22/06 11:03:34
Raja Petra wrote:
I have always said that the greatest enemies of Islam are Muslims themselves. Some bloggers here have reinforced this statement of mine. Where is the peace, humble, tolerance, compassion, etc., that we rant, rave and scream is the hallmark of Islam? We talk about the Prophet's "Last Sermon". Do we practice what the Prophet preached?
Do you know that Christian misionaries go to Orang Asli settlements with doctors to give free medical help and with teachers to help set up schools? Muslim missionaries go there to tell them to get rid of their pigs because pigs are haram and they will go to Hell if they don't get rid of their pigs. And we wonder why Orang Asli become Christians and not Muslims.
Christians demonstrate humility, tolerance and understanding while Muslims demonstrate superiority and a holier-than-thou attitude.
22/06 11:04:23
kadir wrote:
Methinks somebody is trying to come across as more polished in his use of the English language than he is capable of.
................................
An statement is an answer to the truth and reality, it was once said. Some pple think they have been to LA alone. Oh, God the Almighty!
22/06 11:06:22
FrenchFriedTacos wrote:
Kadir said:
malays are Muslims by choice
22 minutes later....
Kadir says:
we have to know that Malays don't mean collective thing/mentality/action and so on.
------------------------------------------
Bravo!
I knew I could count on you to take it to a whole new level.
22/06 11:08:39
Raja Petra wrote:
kadir wrote:
An statement is an answer to the truth and reality, it was once said.
Dear kadir, I am sure an Englishman did not say that because that is utter gibberish. What the hell does that mean?
22/06 11:08:42
FrenchFriedTacos wrote:
kadir said:
An statement is an answer to the truth and reality, it was once said. Some pple think they have been to LA alone. Oh, God the Almighty!
------------------------------------------
Eh?
22/06 11:10:02
kadir wrote:
Raja wrote:
I have always said that the greatest enemies of Islam are Muslims themselves
........................................
Dear Raja, that's why we want you to cool their temperements by being simple and engaging and reassure them. However if attack them, demonise them, belittle them,, urremmettinlgy criticse them, they flee and probably get hardend. Remember the Verse,
"Thus it is due to mercy from Allah that you deal with them gently, and had you been rough, hard hearted, they would certainly have dispersed from around you; pardon them therefore and ask pardon for them, and take counsel with them in the affair; so when you have decided, then place your trust in Allah; surely Allah loves those who trust." {3: 159}
22/06 11:10:48
kadir wrote:
Raja wrote:
Dear kafir, I am sure an Englishman did not say that because that is utter gibberish. What the hell does that mean?
.......................
Sorry, I'm not Kafir. An statment... what was missing was "reactionary" which preceded statement, and defintely when we release a reactionary comment however proud we try to look like, it speaks volume and unravels deep pain and consolation. Remember, pple can read between the lines.
22/06 11:14:04
cruzeiro wrote:
FFT,
your links are truly hilarious .....
as for those who just don't get the joke in their behavior, let them be.
if you have noticed, there is one clown here who's trying to pick on me (and has added you, too) - just ignore.
they don't understand why they go into murderous rage when someone criticizes stupid behaviour.
Yeah, like you said .... it must be the "jewish conspiracy" to precipitate a stroke or heart attack in all those "towelheaded marauding bearded monkeys" (sorry, couldn't resist it - ha, ha).
22/06 11:22:37
Raja Petra wrote:
Dear kadir, sorry, a typo, and I have corrected it above.
22/06 11:23:03
cruzeiro wrote:
ha ha, RPK- are you sure?
22/06 11:25:21
kadir wrote:
Tana Umaga wrote:
Bear in mind though, what you've written applies to ALL religions. Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, all religions in the world have the roots of their sources in MEN and NOT GOD.
.....................................
Exactly. This is what I want. We would like Raja to cover all sides so that all ple appreciate their shortcomings rather than zeroing on Muslims alone which leads to a notion that Islam and Muslims are the bad boys/elements. I can be wrong and my pple {malays} may be wrong or are wrong or we will be wromg, but it applies to every race, religion and grouping across the globe. I want that handled and unearthed.
22/06 11:25:33
cruzeiro wrote:
kadir wrote:
but it applies to every race, religion and grouping across the globe. I want that handled and unearthed.
===================
that calls for a jihad ......
would you join the "rage boys", or condemn their behaviour?
22/06 11:28:47
kadir wrote:
cruizero wrote:
that calls for a jihad ......
would you join the "rage boys", or condemn their behaviour?
...........................................
It is bcoz you harbour hate and thats why you are already a raging volcano who misinterprets the truth. I have never seen such blatant manipulation. Get real dear and be positive. You mean all Christians/Hinuds/Budhis/Sikhs or even athiests are good and well meaning while Muslims are all bad and always bad and are the only bad pple? You will die b4 ur age since you are being torn asunder by loathing and hate.
22/06 11:36:28
cruzeiro wrote:
kadir wrote:
cruizero wrote:
that calls for a jihad ......
would you join the "rage boys", or condemn their behaviour?
...........................................
It is bcoz you harbour hate and thats why you are already a raging volcano who misinterprets the truth. I have never seen such blatant manipulation.
===========================
hey - what you raging on me for?
I only asked a simple question - can't you give a simple answer?
22/06 11:45:55
FrenchFriedTacos wrote:
kadir said:
But zionism sends an amateur like you....
------------------------------------------
Aha! The Muslim Zorro marks a big fat Z in the sand with his stream of pee!
I was wondering when the Z word would be thrown into the mix.
But seriously, with Muslims like you around, "Zionist agents" like me will soon be out of business. You are stealing our "jobs" and moreover you do it for free!
22/06 11:48:24
cruzeiro wrote:
FrenchFriedTacos wrote:
kadir said:
But zionism sends an amateur like you....
------------------------------------------
But seriously, with Muslims like you around, "Zionist agents" like me will soon be out of business. You are stealing our "jobs" and moreover you do it for free!
================
LOL!
22/06 11:54:57
kadir wrote:
FrenchTacos earlier wrote:
Come on! Be loud and proud and describe it as your Hadiths say: APES AND PIGS
Why so shy all of a sudden? If you want to prove that your kind are the modern day Nazis, do it properly, not in a half-assed manner.
..........................
I answered, then he wrote:
Aha! The Muslim Zorro marks a big fat Z in the sand with his stream of pee!
I was wondering when the Z word would be thrown into the mix.
...................................
Already answered and it is you who identified himself thru the very statement that wrote. Remember, u can't run from your true identity and what you hold dear even if you engage in manouvering. Only that you are a chameleone and a poltroon who can't afford to say I love this like we say we love Islam. There is nothing constructive you provide apart from Islam bashing. You may say you bash me as well, yes, but it is anaswer rathar than a principle and bcoz you initiate it.
................
That said, I have one advice for you: you can insult me ceaselessly till the end and I can do the same, but I want you to tell me in a simple and civilised language whats wrong with my faith or its interpreation so that I corect it or get corrected. Honesty and humility shul be invloved here. At the same time, you state your own deficiencies and shortcomings and TRUE positions, and then demand/accept to be advised and corrected. That way, we benefit all if there is honesty on our part. If not, then Islam bashing doesn't make you greater neither does it make me retreat nor does Islam slow down for apoligies and wild ranting.
22/06 12:01:32
FrenchFriedTacos wrote:
buluhitam said:
FrenchFriedTacos wrote the way they did on Islam (e.g. dropping a nuclear on Mecca),
------------------------------------------
That's actually an infinitely more humane act in comparison to the barbarity and depravity being exported to the rest of the world from Saudi Arabia.
Think of it as an investment towards the future of humanity ; p
If it caused a paradigm shift in the mentality of the Japanese, I see no reason why it wouldn't work miracles in the Muslim world!
Besides, the rest of the world is always entertained to diatribes from the Muslim world about "Death to (enter favorite bogeyman here)". But beyond words, we've also seen Islamic inspired killing and butchery in action against the non-Muslims.
Just trying to see if you turds can take as much as you dish out.
So far, it seems that general Muslim appeal for reason only flows one way.
22/06 12:03:16
teo siew chin wrote:
Glencairn - i believe only in malaysia, the malay is automatically a muslim. check wikipedia on the malay race.
22/06 12:06:30
cruzeiro wrote:
Dear RPK,
I really have nothing against Malays or Moslems - in fact many of my friends are Malays/ Moslems.
This "rise of the rage-boys" thingy, is nothing but the arrogant power of the petro-dollar.
RPK, part-time "zionist agents" (as declared by some "rage boy" here) like you (sorry not you RPK, its FFT) will be out of business soon enough, when the petro-dollar dries up, with the help of the many raging guys that are around.
It is strange that nobody can actually rationalize the "rage" experienced by these guys. My theory was mentioned above, but wasn't understood - maybe it was a bad theory.
What do you think is the Pathology of this rage?
22/06 12:06:49
FrenchFriedTacos wrote:
kadir said:
I want you to tell me in a simpl and civilised language whats wrong with my faith or its interpreation so that I corect it or get corrected. Honesty and humility shul be invloved here.
-------------------------------------------
OK, OK...fair enough.
With utmost honesty and much humility....
I must tell you that your faith is proving to be a barbaric death cult in the way it is practiced by mindless zombies who are more skilled at talking cock as opposed to actually practicing those tenets of faith that they make much ballyhoo about.
How's that for being honest?
As for humility, I must've taken a wrong turn at al-Burkha-kee.
22/06 12:20:14
FrenchFriedTacos wrote:
Kadir said:
Islam bashing doesn't make you greater neither does it make me retreat nor does Islam slow down for apoligies and wild ranting.
-----------------------------------------
Hmmm...I never implied it makes me "greater". It does nothing for me, in fact.
And I certainly don't do it to make your kind retreat. In fact I'm counting on the fact that you DO NOT retreat, but actually engage. The response from Muslims to my comments is an invaluable pay off for my efforts at commenting (This is the second time I've disclosed this within the same thread, and yet you're howling for me to state my TRUE intentions/position....you're denser than I initially believed).
Me, attempting to make Islam "slow down"?
I don't even have to lift my pinkie. Islam is hamstrung and made retarded by the behavior of its own adherents.
By the way, you must really be "raging" right now. I notice your grammar and spelling have taken a nosedive.
22/06 12:29:40
kadir wrote:
FrenchTacos wrote:
That's actually an infinitely more humane act in comparison to the barbarity and depravity being exported to the rest of the world from Saudi Arabia.
Think of it as an investment towards the future of humanity ; p
If it caused a paradigm shift in the mentality of the Japanese, I see no reason why it would work miracles in the Muslim world!
.............................
Thanks for this profound love and compasion. That said, will the USA and the UK also be fumigated with nuclear bombs since they arm Saudi Arabia and protect its official corruption? I heard pple of mutual bargains shul have the same destinty. Again, thanks for your love.
..................
About my request for engagement and civility, FrenchTacos stated:
I must tell you that your faith is proving to be a barbaric death cult in the way it is practiced by mindless zombies who are more skilled at talking cock as opposed to actually practicing those tenets of faith that they make much ballyhoo about. As for humility, I must've taken a wrong turn at al-Burkha-kee.
.................
You failed the test so you can't blame me for refusing to handshake you. I hope your civilisation doesn't shut its doors on all/anyone who doesn't agree with it. As for me, I'm happy to be a Muslim and I wish everyone well unless he is not willing which then calls for a different approach.
22/06 12:30:57
kadir wrote:
Frechtacos says:
By the way, you must really be "raging" right now. I notice your grammar and spelling have taken a nosedive.
.......................................
A poor way of consoling oneself. Look for a better cover rather than this cheap and pellucid cover dear.
22/06 12:32:42
cruzeiro wrote:
kadir,
you haven't answered me regarding your stand on the rage-boys! why?
22/06 12:36:09
bumi non malay wrote:
kadir
Go and get a life and eat your daily nasi lemak wages....we do not need your Crap here just address the issue on how can a malay be born an Islam??
Even Allah is dumb Founded....If the Islam by Malays in Malaysia accept malay can be born Islam then its a cult.
Nevermind what the constitution says....what does your ideology say.??
If the constitution says you are a SH*T I am sure you will distance yourself from it.
Cut your Crap and bring the loud speaker down...if you don't know the time of worship....Usah panggil diri muslim-Islam!!
22/06 12:40:53
FrenchFriedTacos wrote:
kadir said:
You failed the test so you can't blame me for refusing to handshake you.
------------------------------------------
Forgive me, o honorable wiseman of the sand dune. I had not the foggiest idea that thou wast testing me. Might I have an opportunity for a re-take?
kadir said:
--------------------------------------
I hope your civilisation doesn't shut its doors on all/anyone who doesn't agree with it.
--------------------------------------
Let's see, like burning down giant teapots? Bulldozing places of non-Muslim worship? Banning of all other religious practices in that bedrock and birthplace of tolerant Islam, the religion of peace? Persecution of Bahais and Zoroastrians in Iran? Shias butchering Sunnis. Sunnis decapitating Shias. Would you like me to go on further or does your dense mind see a pattern here?
But you know what? If "my" civilization shuts the door against you twats whom we don't agree with, well and good. It is better than kidnapping you and locking you in with us against your will, which seems to be the hallmark of your modern day Nazi type religious administration (globally, not just in Malaysia).
Just don't let the door smack your rear on the way out.
22/06 12:42:33
FrenchFriedTacos wrote:
cruzeiro said:
kadir,
you haven't answered me regarding your stand on the rage-boys! why?
----------------------------------------
He's too busy raging, that's why.
22/06 12:43:51
cruzeiro wrote:
It is really strange that many of our muslims brothers actually refuse to condemn irrational behaviour when it is done by an ignoramus al-nincompoop when it is done in the name of Islam.
this pseudo-brotherhood is what drags them all together into the cesspool of shamelessness.
when have the true muslims ever come out in force to condemn irrational acts of bigotry, violence and hatred?
when have they ever stood up for righteousness for a kafir against a self proclaimed ulama? never!
this is the hypocrisy that is being preached today by the "rage-boys" of the world. (of course the rage-boys of other religions included if there are any around)
22/06 12:47:54
flex tan wrote:
cruzeiro,
CAN U IMAGINE DOOMSDAY...HUMANITY WILL BLAME EACH OTHER (BRO AGAINST BRO....ETC) IN FRONT OF GOD, AS GOD PREDICTED........ ???
HAHAHHAH
HE WILL PICK THE WEED FIRST....AND THEN BURN THEM.....LEAVING HIS HARVEST FOR COLLECTION.
22/06 12:55:16
cruzeiro wrote:
flexy,
don't bother addressing me . I don't read your comments. sorry.
22/06 12:56:50
anon wrote:
RPK said:
Dear buluhitam, Islam is the official religion of Malaysia so that makes it every Malaysian's business. Why can't Muslims understand this? You can't tell non-Muslims that Islam is the official religion and that they must accept this or else go back to China or India but then shut the fuck up and don't talk about Islam.
Don't you realise THIS is what makes non-Muslims hate Islam? WE, the Muslims, are giving every reason for the non-Muslims to hate Islam. Why can't this fact get into your thick skulls?
You have brought Islam down to a level that it has become a political tool. Politics is dirty so Islam invariably end up geting dirtied as well. Keep Islam pure and non-Muslims will respect Islam.
----------------------------------------
Does not this sum it all?
I am going to say this as objectively as I can and I am being very honest here.
As a non-Muslim, I actually did not like the religion of Islam and its teachings.
Thank goodness I came across this site, I forgot how, and started reading it.
It is here that I found more to what I know about Muslims, TRUE Muslims.
I was in a dilemma. I know of one Muslim family ( most of you know who that family is ) who are so liberal and on the other hand I read so much in here what Islam says.
I do not have to go into details …. RPK has said it all and has clarified what Islam is all about and now that sentence …. I was in a dilemma …. is history, thanks to RPK and his revelation of what Islam is all about and the typical Malay mindset with their bashing of other religions and calling non-Muslims kafirs and soasf.
I do have to thank RPK. If not for him, I will still be thinking that Islam is some kind of fanatical religion and the vast majority subscribe to the deviant teachings of some so called ulamas, muftis, imams. I said some …. I don’t know about the rest.
If any religion says someone outside their religion is dirty, filthy, an infidel, then I say that is not what that religion says but that is what the ulamas and preachers profess and teach.
Teaching and instilling hatred is a big sin. Do not tell the non-Muslims to accept or fcuk off to China or India.
We could tell you to fcuk off to Arabia.
Again, I thank RPK and some in here too who have enlightened me about what Islam is all about. I am not talking about the damn wahhabi version which to me is a washbasin version …. I am talking about a TRUE Islam and TRUE Malay Muslims. The Islam that RPK is talking about and trying so painstakingly to enlighten not just the non-Muslims but Muslims as well.
A huge thank you to RPK and to other Malay Muslims who think along the lines of RPK.
You may not agree on certain things but thank goodeness you do not subscribe to the wahhabi version of Islam.
I do hope this article reaches all Malaysians of all races and religion.
Peace.
22/06 13:15:47
FrenchFriedTacos wrote:
Ahhh...Kadir, Zaki, and their ilk have all disappeared. It must be the weekly Friday Rage-a-palooza time!
They are all going to come back in here charged up with "rage" in a few hours.
Bets are on...first one to pop his head in here will be Shahidan with his weekly Friday khutbah on imperialism.
22/06 13:24:55
anon wrote:
FFT,
Looks like you are right. LOL
Pathetic wayward ignoramuses.
Peace.
22/06 14:46:23
TheWrathOfGrapes wrote:
.
An Open Letter to FLEX TAN and all who like to SHOUT here
To the rest, let me apologize first if you see this all over the place – I want to make sure that Mr not-so-FLEXible gets to read this. So, if you see this appearing in different threads, please do what cruzeiro did – skip this letter. Thousand apologies to you and RPK.
/// cruzeiro wrote:
flexy,
don't bother addressing me . I don't read your comments. sorry
22/06 12:56:50 ///
Dear Mr FLEX TAN,
Here is a win-win propostion for you and it is quite a painless process, I can assure you. All that is required of you is to be a little bit FLEXible, so that we all don’t have to TAN too long for you to come to your senses.
Like cruzeiro, I have given up reading anything you wrote. My left-click-on-the-mouse reflex has been programmed thus – each time I see a post in CAPS – it automatically scrolls down to the next post. I am prompted to write this because I saw cruzeiro’s above post, not yours.
Why do you bother to write at all? Surely to share your views, right? I do not know whether you talk sense or not, but from second-hand comments from other posters, you do have something to offer, someone who is a cross between Lim Kit Siang and somebody.
Anyway, you claimed not to be able to see what you write unless you write in CAPS. I supposed the anomaly of being able to type your name in lower case is plausible because you must have typed “flex tan” hundreds and thousands of times and can do it in the dark. No, on second thought, you don’t have to do that even, as the blogsite will do that for you automatically after you have registered your name. My only amazement is this – how on earth did you achieve that earth-shattering feat when you register!!!
But seriously, this is a constructive suggestion which I hope you will take up immediately so as to spare the rest of us further agony. You claimed to have bad eye sight. At the rate this is going, either eyeballing ALL YOUR CAPS, or scrolling furiously away from THEM, my eye sight will also fail in no time.
So this is what you have to do. Very easy and very painless.
1) First type out your message in CAPS (business as usual) on a word document.
2) Then, highlight your entire text.
3) Click on “Format” (the 5th word on the top of your word document).
4) Then click on “Change Case” on the drop-down menu.
5) Then click on “Sentence Case” – the first item on the pop-up menu.
6) Voila – your whole text has magically become readable.
And 99.99% of the folks here will forever be grateful to you for your supreme act of selflessness, compassion and consideration for others.
.
22/06 15:12:36
anon wrote:
TheWrathOfGrapes,
Good one LOL
Btw, I too skip his crappy, umm, 'cappy' posts. If it was in the lower case, I might just read them.
Cheers
22/06 15:18:47
Raja Petra wrote:
bullalexandr wrote:
Dear YM RPK,
Pls Stick to politics-Malaysian Politics that is.
Dear bullalexandr, Islam IS about Malaysian politics. The misconception of Islam will be what demolishes opposition solidarity with DAP and PAS at each other's throats. If we resolve the matter of Islam we will resolve the problem with the opposition.
22/06 15:52:36
cruzeiro wrote:
ikhwanchen wrote:
......walked out in a huff during the doa selamat (prayers) telling her poor husband that it was wrong to be in a group of such non-believers (meaning non-Christians).
==================
yeah, those are the kind of specimens who wouldn't condemn the "rage-boys" of the "hallelujah" kind in the name of christian-solidarity.
well, you get all kinds everywhere - what's important is, we are willing to face facts, and correct the wrongs of politics, pride and ego.
22/06 15:57:41
cruzeiro wrote:
"If we resolve the matter of Islam we will resolve the problem with the opposition."
==================
with all due respect, RPK, could it be that the abolition of religion in politics that would solve the problem with the opposition .... ever thought about that?
22/06 16:02:11
cruzeiro wrote:
Loh wrote:
Maybe the Malays are too religious. Is it out of fear?
==================
you said it, bro!
Yep, they are too chicken to fight (or even condemn for fear of being declared an infidel) the politics of the rage-boys ..... as was with many other "religious" communities.
the christians and jews were once dominated by them, with similar results.
However in Malaysia, they serve a very convenient political purpose for the rulers - they can divide the populace along "patriotic/ nationalistic" racial-lines, and be the convenient bogeyman to those who despise them.
Everytime, the civil and friendly nature of a beautiful people starts gaining influence, religion is used to deepen the divide and destabilize.
Therefore, the more corrupt a ruler gets, the more essential the propagation of religious intolerance has to become, to perpetuate the rule.
It is sad that many on MT do not realize this sad fact.
Some actually hope to have this "utopian theocratic" state established in Malaysia with the "true" brand of a religion. This they wish to do, if not for true justice, just to prove to the rest of the world that Theocracies can work in the "global village", just as it would in the kampung.
They forget, that it has been tried and tested for centuries. They forget, that religion itself can be the source of corruption, for with political power, it will tolerate no dissent. It would tolerate no debate. It is how religion evolves to become "sects" and "cults". With politics, religiosity is given a boost, while the spirituality would be diminished and suppressed as heresy.
In fact, political religiosity/ religious politics, would be more draconian, and has to be feared much more than our "much loved" ISA - for who among us mere mortals/ infidels, could possibly have the right to question the will of "god", as dished out by the "men of the cloth"?
There would be much peace in this world should man learn the lessons of history, and keep "God/ spirituality" only in their hearts, while they work with their heads and hands, while they shut their god-forsaken mouths when it comes to "God".
22/06 18:09:56
cruzeiro wrote:
the word "ilk" seems to be very popular lah - just an observation .....
22/06 18:11:41
kadir wrote:
jazzeeboy asked:
Just one question to Kadir, Zaki77 and other of their ilk. Also, lets stop beating about the bush.
What is it about the practices, claims or principles of people/entities like Osama, Saudi Arabia, Taliban, Hamas/Fatah, Iran and sundry psychos that is against Islamic tenets as represented by/in the holy books?
Anything....
.................................
I have never defended even once a certain group in all my inputs if have observed. My group is Islam and Muslims. About this Osama you are talking about, all what know is that he was created by the US, so they are in a better position to know him and his ideology but his behaviour is evil. Taliban is an ugly part of the Muslim history. Saudi Arabia ruling elite is more evil than Sharon bcoz they preach wter and drink wine. Their Islam as I have repreatedly mentioned is for political expediency but Islam is one and pure. May Allah guide us to the Truth. Fatah is a political organisation, likewise Hamas like the UMNO or PAS or the Republican or the UK Labour. I have never heard them saaying they stand for what Islam is. Islam is you as an individual so start with yourself and you reprsent Islam and Muslims.
That said, whether Muslims who live in the Brazil, Cape Verde, Papua New Guinea, Siberia, Senegal, South AFrica, Malaysia, Saudi, Turkey or any other spot or otherwise, if we do something evil, wrong or un-Islamic, then it is simply un-Islamic. As simple as that. Mawlana Jalal ad-Din Muhammad Rumi answered his critics who tried to misrepresent his true identity and he said: "I am the servant of the Qur'an as long as I have life. I am the dust on the path of Muhammad, the Chosen one. If anyone quotes anything except this from my sayings, I am quit of him and outraged by these words."
22/06 18:25:36
cruzeiro wrote:
once again kadir, you are a disappointment..... why do you always stop short of condemning a specific schizophrenic ideology/ behaviour pattern? what is so "islamic" about murderous rage in the name of god, that you avoid it? are you a "closet supporter" of these "rage boys"?
22/06 18:33:34
cruzeiro wrote:
never mind lah, kadir .... I think you try too hard to "paint a nice picture".
i think i know your stand ...
22/06 18:40:39
atukR wrote:
Are that non-muslim (Malaysian in particulars) interpreted ALL Malays in Malaysia was stupid because to follows wahabi's (pagan Arab) believes as Liberty statue of Islam? or that what has been interpreted in this article?
Are this believes supported via figures and facts? If indeed this case was true then the Malays must watch-out dearly since out there, all non-muslims are accusing you (Malays) of becoming 'irrelevant' dangerous race hence to make this race to become instinct would be the 'priority' event!
Is this your intention RPK?
It puzzling me, why should the peoples love to look at the dark side of each other opponents and try to create understanding with the hatred - stupidios! We are all ordinary humans and ordinary humans tend to become ordinary animals easily. Please create the understanding with common good deeds and loves...
22/06 18:44:21
menteri wrote:
Kadir oh Kadir, kenapa kamu bodoh sangat? menyesal.
22/06 18:44:36
rioamril wrote:
umno corrupts.
22/06 18:46:22
cruzeiro wrote:
atukR,
could you please repeat in Malay .... i fear misinterpreting your English.
22/06 18:52:36
atukR wrote:
which part dear sir cruzeiro, I am sure you will understand the meanings instead of the words..
22/06 18:56:29
kadir wrote:
salman asked:
My limited knowledge about seerah tells me that the Prophet Muhammad had expelled all the Jewish tribes in the Medina for the sins that, to modern standard, may not appear to be wholly justified. And when these tribes resided in Khaybar, the Prophet later expelled them too. How much tolerance is that, if I may ask?
..................................
to modern standard, may not appear to be wholly justified.
......................
1st of all this modern day justification you talk about is not only ludicrous but utterly misleading. The reality that man lives today or shall live tomorrow is different from that of any given period. Probably that's why George Orwell said, Every generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it.
If evicting someone who tried to kill you [which was a criminal act} is unacceptable in 1500 years ago, what about telling the world today that killing the entire Palestinian population is right? I'm sure you read about the edict of fomer Israel Chief Rabbi who said 2 weeks ago that labelling Palestianins is holy and biblical since they are enemy. The letter, published in Olam Katan [Small World], a weekly pamphlet to be distributed in synagogues nationwide this Friday, cited the biblical story of the Shechem massacre (Genesis 34) and Maimonides' commentary (Laws of Kings 9, 14) on the story as proof texts for his legal decision. Is that acceptable today? What about Guantanamo Is it acceptable? What about carpet bombardment? Is it civilisation? Hiroshima means a step forward,. I think. How many countries are denied the right to life today? When others pursue terror cells and destroy other nations that even have no inkling of whats going, it is modernism and progress but when Muslims uproot terror cells, it is evil and inhuman. Yes, but only when your blood is light and you fail to know that it takes 2 hands to make a clap.
Coming to your ideas, here are the answers from Islamic point of view by scholars.
THE 1st answer: was Prophet Muhammad unjust to Jews?
http://www.islamonline.net/...
Related issues/topics,
http://www.islamonline.net/...
http://www.islamonline.net/...
http://www.islamonline.net/...
http://www.islamonline.net/...
http://www.islamonline.net/...
http://www.islamonline.net/...
http://www.islamonline.net/...
http://www.islamonline.net/...
http://www.islamonline.net/...
http://www.islamonline.net/...
http://www.islamonline.net/...
http://www.ikim.gov.my/v5/i...
22/06 18:56:31
cruzeiro wrote:
aiyah atuk,
the whole thing lahh - i think you have "something" there.
i think you'll do better in malay ...
22/06 18:59:29
freewaay wrote:
atukR, I think RPK intention is to wake up and make the Malay realized that they are the choosen people that have been given Islam and Qur'an, unfortunately they have been duped by the Arabs disbelievers and hypocrites from the right path. They read the Qur'an but don't understand anything.
Come on Malay, we can. The Jews have failed and become racist, The Christian are trapped in Trinity, The Arabs have reverts to paganism.
It is our responsibility now as the best nation, enjoining good and forbidden the evil, uphold the Qur'an!!
Let we become witness to the world, and the prophet bear witness to us.
Don't care about the bashings from all sides, if it is the truth, then it is dynamic enough to stand clear from the error.
Thanks.
22/06 18:59:43
kadir wrote:
cruizero wrote:
once again kadir, you are a disappointment..... why do you always stop short of condemning a specific schizophrenic ideology/ behaviour pattern? what is so "islamic" about murderous rage in the name of god, that you avoid it? are you a "closet supporter" of these "rage boys"?
.....................................
Dear cruz, to be honest I believe that you have a point to raise and a way to engage which is differnt from the approches of someone people. That said, coming back to your accusation, I don't know how I failed to answer your specific question bcoz there was none u asked. 1st of all, what and who is/are rage boys so that at least I can comment/denounce him/them? Ok, then I think I have answered something of the sort when I quoted Mawlana Jalal Rumi who said that he represents Muhammad and Islam therefore, if he does/ is quoted on other non-exsistent issues, then he is quit o it. Likewise, I say if a Muslim including myself does something wrong/evil/un-Islamic, then we are wrong and deserve punishment and Islam is quit of that. As simple as that. But lets not flee from digesting one basic fact: that it takes 2 hands to make a clap.
22/06 19:01:25
cruzeiro wrote:
Kadir,
when I say "rage-boy", I refer to those bearded, illiterate, hysterical/ schizophrenic guys with all their chest-thumping bravado, screaming for blood "when the pope, salman rushdie or whoever farts"!
go to the links given by FFT, if you need a better picture and have a good laugh!
22/06 19:09:57
cruzeiro wrote:
they are soooo funny.
lol
22/06 19:11:05
atukR wrote:
Forgive me cruizero of not making the good remarks in English and thanks to freeway of clearing it up. Unfortunately my real 'scared' is the way it will lead to ...
22/06 19:12:07
cruzeiro wrote:
holy cow! atuk .... no need to murder the language lah. malay is good lah - like this, one day you'll cause unforseen problems.
melayu pun okay, kita ni kan org malaysia - tak payah nak tulis dlm BI aje ....
22/06 19:20:51
cruzeiro wrote:
BTW atuk,
pls avoid the "sir" and "forgive me" okay ... I just thought you had something worth understanding so I requested it in malay.
22/06 19:26:01
freewaay wrote:
atukR, Don't be scared, I am optimistic that Malaysia is heading in the right direction. China and India is the future Economic giants, we have a good proportion of them, Islam is the fastest growing religion, malay = muslim.
Everyday, I become to realized that pluralism of religion and culture in Malaysia is really a blessing from God, sometimes I cry pondering about it.
Everyday, I dislike anyone that preaching exclusiveness and sectarian violence.
We know, discussion like this can only be done in internet, and not appropiate in the public. Don't worry, majority of Malay still practice the beautiful Malay culture, only some of them is attracted to Arab culture. But I have no problems with this, as long as they keep their common sense.
Thanks.
22/06 19:29:14
cruzeiro wrote:
freeway,
don't cry too much .... it may lead to rage!
LOL - you're funnylah.
22/06 19:37:26
bumi non malay wrote:
ha ha ha ha ha ha
Looks like we have debated these low intellect ameobas in the name of Kadir and bulu-bulu to SUBMISSION.....
I hope they merge into bacteria over the weekend and see if they can come up with something more Outrages that reflect their iota.....we await Gleefully!!
22/06 19:39:25
kadir wrote:
badshah wrote:
kadir...dont you think many muslims who come after prophet muhamad lead more righteous life then prophet himself?like the mediveal arabic scholars,scientists,poets etc...too many to be named.aren't they better example to follow then prophet himself?
......................................
Absolutely NO! No ONE even can afford to think of that. Muhammad {pbuh} remains the BEST Example for every Muslim in every generation. To do any thing good that may have been done by scholars, poets, scientists or authors is to follow Muhammad {pbuh} further. No one can match Muhammad's Greatness and Holiness! It is an official position rather than whimsical rantings on my side. Defintely, you will not get a Muslim however little Muslim he/she is who even can think of your observation and suggestion.
Muhammad {pbuh} is the benchmark for evey Muslim. You can't go further neither can you succceed any better and that's why he remains the absolute. "So take what the Messenger assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you. And fear Allah; for Allah is strict in Punishment." {59: 7}
He is not an ordinary mortal to be equated with others however successful they were. "Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things." {33: 40} The love for him is profound and extreme. Only the heart can explain that love. "Certainly a Messenger has come to you from among yourselves; grievous to him is your falling into distress, ardently anxious is he over you: to the Believers is he most kind and merciful." {9: 128}
He is the epitome of all good and men and womenw ho prostrate are instructed to try to reach albeit little his epic stature. "Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah." {33: 21}
Becoming a scientist, poet, literature icon, physician, scholar, philanthropist, army commander, peace activist, human right activist and all that good deeds man can think of is thinking about Muhammad {pbuh} as far Muslims are concerned.
Loving God is loving humanity bcoz it is humanity that needs fellow man rather tha God, in that regard, loving humanity is loving Muhammad bcoz he loved God and in extension humanity. "Say: "If ye do love Allah, Follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins: For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." {3: 31} That's why as far Muslims are concerned, no one will reach the status of Muhammad {pbuh} however great he has been, shall be and is. "And We have not sent you but as a mercy to the worlds." {21: 107} So he represents that perfection that man can dream of therefore NO Muslim can preach, purport or believe that someone can be greater than Prophet Muhammad {pbuh}. Thanks for your quuestion.
22/06 19:42:57
freewaay wrote:
bumi non malay
I've always hate arrogant and egoistic person.
I hope you are not one of them!!
22/06 19:43:44
cruzeiro wrote:
kadir,
what a diarrhoea of words man ..... cool, man no need to rage over a simple question ......
did you see "rage-boy"? hysterical, ain't he?
22/06 19:54:21
freewaay wrote:
cruziero, I think Kadir is a pious sunni, you must respect him. If you are searching for a peacefulness in your life then I suggested you to convert to sunni.
Thanks.
22/06 20:01:57
kadir wrote:
cruzeiro wrote:
kadir,
what a diarrhoea of words man ..... cool, man no need to rage over a simple question ......
did you see "rage-boy"? hysterical, ain't he?
...................................
Your relentless pursuing of me fails to convince anyone here. Why is it that you are are parroting and making of reverberation of what we have already answered? About the rage boys you harp on as if you are paid in squaring out with them, we have no business with them and the wild rantings of anyone has no locus standi. I want to know what is it that you are preaching? Where is the wisdom in ur words? What is your solution? It is very interesting that you try to behave like a goon who wants to lynch pple on non-exsisent issues and yet harp on ill concived ideas that have no exsistence whatsoever. Moreover, if few Pakistani men shout at anyone, it is their right to behave like nuts even if they want. You can be a gay or lesbian moreover since we are free. I was told. But in truth they are not different from you who is fuming and foaming at the mouth yet fails to exert any influnce. Give me the truth and the solution. I have quit your cheap ware and I answered much of your monotonous and humdrums that you keep on saying about these shouting goons. I can't help if your heavy-hearted approach is failing you to an extent that you see the log in our eyes but fail to obseve the speck in yours. I repreat again: it takes 2 hands to make a clap. Whoever is wrong is wrong bcoz another person is wrong and therefore they are of mutual bagains. I'm not aware of perfect human beings except the Prophets. It is the Somalis who say you "accuse others of what actually you are." {Waxaad tahay ayaad dadka ku eedaysaa}
22/06 20:10:22
badshah wrote:
kadir said " No one can match Muhammad's Greatness and Holiness! It is an official position rather than whimsical rantings on my side"
kadir...to me it sounds like idoltary....
besides...if you want to go to moon...aim for star!if you want to go to clouds aim for moon.
the best way to prove that prophet muhamad is a good example to follow...is to lead decent peaceful righteous life....but all the terrorists,suicide bombers,discrimination against kafirs done in the name of allah and your prophet...while majority of muslim are silent about it.when question in blogs like this...most of then(i assume) come in defensive...very few argue against...eg; rpk,farukh peru and farish noor.some are die hard and stubborn...likes of zaki and maybe you
22/06 20:12:36
cruzeiro wrote:
phew!! kadeer,
you definitely are a closet rage boy!
ROTFL!!!!!!!
22/06 20:21:03
cruzeiro wrote:
I can't help if your heavy-hearted approach is failing you to an extent that you see the log in our eyes but fail to obseve the speck in yours.
=====================
he even screwed that up!!!
ROTFL!!!!
adoi!!!
22/06 20:23:03
kadir wrote:
cruziero wtote:
phew!! kadeer,
you definitely are a closet rage boy!
ROTFL!!!!!!!
........................................
Thats why i quoted the Somali proverb that says you accuse others of what actually yo are. If I'm a rage boy, what are you? Looking back at how you barked with no substance whatsoever, where is the wisdom? I have repeated and repeated that If I have a problem, give me a soution but all you can afford is to pick your favourite nick name: rage boys. Oh, dear, it remembles the case of a child who dreamt of something sweet and when woke up in the morning nagged his parents about the thing demanding to be given with the parents failing to understand what he is talking about. Again, it takes 2 hands to make a clap!
22/06 20:34:45
freewaay wrote:
Kadir,
You are really an exemplar of a righteous sunni.I salute you, keep up your good works.
Thanks.
22/06 20:36:13
kadir wrote:
FRIDAY June 22,
I wanted this tolerance explained to me. This is today's news and it is official unlike the complaints made by someone which lead to RPK wrting this articleand everyone blaming Islam.
BERLIN — In statements endorsed by the ruling Christian Democratic Union party and harshly criticized by MPs, Germany's top cardinal has warned against "uncritical tolerance" which could lead to Islam enjoying equal standing with Christianity in the country, Deutsche Welle reported Friday, June 22...Meisner, who last year BANNED Catholic children from PRAYING with Muslim classmates, said a real test of religious tolerance would be whether Christians could build churches and worship freely in Turkey, as Muslims can in Germany.
http://www.islamonline.net/...
22/06 20:54:24
cruzeiro wrote:
kadeer,
you fail to understand what you yourself write!
you are so self righteous!
spare me your infantile "deep wisdom".
you don't even know the meaning of the word "reciprocity", and all you can rage about is, how wrong the Germans are when the morons wanna join them in the EU, but choose to defy the laws!
you really are a piece of work, rage boy!
22/06 21:24:07
cruzeiro wrote:
To whom it may concern,
Idiots like you think that you can take freedom for granted, and impose your "values" on others by raving and ranting.
Scum like you try very hard to be very courteous in order to fool the "infidel" (as advised by a great hypocrite that I shall leave unnamed) , but in your fiery heart, seethes hatred for mankind!
Remember this - the Europeans don't need to be taught how to get rid of parasites in their midst. They can be greater devils than you (cardinal or not) - history has shown that, and you guys are definitely playing with fire!
You disgust me!
22/06 21:37:20
badshah wrote:
kadir said "Muhammad {pbuh} is the absolute. Whether sun, moon, sand, soil and or sky, Muhammad {pbuh} remains the absolute."
a muslim told me before...muhamad is the last messenger but not the greatest one...the greatest is supposed to be jesus....and thats way why jesus will return to lead mankind before doomsday...and this is told to me by amuslim...whats your take on this?
22/06 21:39:08
cruzeiro wrote:
Yes my man, the Pope did challenge you guys to justify your actions and wisdom - all he got was plenty of murderous rage, raving and ranting ( and of course plenty of fartwahs).
How shamelessly they (the raving lunatics) justified his comments and then demanded that he withdraw his remarks!
22/06 21:42:55
badshah wrote:
kadir said " If someone wants to leave Islam, lets leave that person to decide his destiny bcoz retaining him forcefully doesn't help Muslimsn neither does it make the oppressed person a beter person, therefore, leave Lina Joy to go to where she wants..."
===================
instead of telling me that why not tell jsis mais syariah court and mullah bollahs this....since they dont beleive anything you said.you react to us when we object the stuff they did....while you are silent to their action..you "preach" to us instead of them.
you are hypocrite...do you realise that?
22/06 21:44:12
cruzeiro wrote:
you are hypocrite...do you realise that?
=============
badshah, you can say that again!
22/06 21:47:29
Moot wrote:
A marvellous piece Peter.
22/06 21:50:22
freewaay wrote:
Kadir.
It was the concept of religious freedom that is advocated by the Europe & US previous enlightenment thinkers that has allowed Islam to flourish there. So reciprocally we must also uphold religious freedom in Islamic country.
I hope you can understand that.
Thanks.
22/06 21:51:25
cruzeiro wrote:
freeway,
some people don't understand the meaning of "decency". You waste your time, bro.
22/06 21:57:21
kadir wrote:
badshah wrote:
you are hypocrite...do you realise that?
.................................
I don't want to be sacrilegious in dismissing you as an hypocrite and shows the idea that you may be an irreverent towards what's sacred. That said, you demanded my position and I stated. What else shul I do? Was I talking to JAIS in this forum? No, so it was u who sought my explanation on a certain issue and I gave my answer only to be dismissed as a profane hpocrite. You are entitled to your opinion however convenient it is, but if that's the way you display how bad Muslims are, I must say I'm proud of your decency and well mannerism. JAIS is not under my control for them to listen to me. I'm a poor Malaysian like you who doesn't have the powers that be to correct any situation, so all I can afford is to voice my position. But if JAIS is ill and pugnacious, then your character is not what will be the panacea to the maladies that this nation faces. I have quoted Top German Christian man saying Muslim children shul not be prayed with, why don't handle it? Why don't u blame Christianity? Still I'm happy!
Can I say Christianity is bad bcoz of this man alone? If an UMNO?PAS member says something of the sort, u can imagine Islam will be under attack. But when we mention other pple's shortcomings and failures, it is pride. Cruz writes: "the Europeans don't need to be taught how to get rid of parasites in their midst. They can be greater devils than you (cardinal or not) - history has shown that, and you guys are definitely playing with fire!" Imagine if I say Muslims know how to handle stupid bunch of Christians in response to a chuch demolished for example? Will be appropriate? Oh, I know it, it is only that when non-Muslims toes are stepped on, it pains, but for Muslims, it doesn't. I love it.
22/06 22:18:59
badshah wrote:
kadir...i am not christian....
it is ok that you have stated you stand on this issues....and i understand it.
good that now you quoted rudyard kiplings poetry...i wish jais and mais will take a stand like you did
22/06 22:41:46
freewaay wrote:
Kadir.
Next time, when you read the Qur'an, reflect for a while, maybe the verse actually admonish you. You quote 14:13 that say all prophets brought the same religion, and make no division and not to called other than God. But how you become so exclusive and claim the truth for yourself? and you divided the religion and calling each others infidels, and you called other than God (idolizing prophet Muhammad). Proceed to next verse:
42:14 And they only divided after the knowledge had come to them, due to resentment among themselves. And had it not been for a predetermined decision from your Lord, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, those who inherited the Scripture after them are full of doubts.
Do your holier-than-thou attitude is teach by the Qur'an, absolutely no! This is what Qur'an teach:
42:15 For that, you shall preach and be upright, as you have been commanded, and do not follow their wishes. And say: "I believe in all that God has sent down from Scripture, and I was commanded to be with justice between you. God is our Lord and your Lord. We have our deeds and you have your deeds. There is no argument between us and you. God will gather us all together, and to Him is the ultimate destiny."
I thought you shall now write a conclusion for your point in a decent manner.
Thanks.
22/06 22:47:20
kadir wrote:
freeway wrote:
So reciprocally we must also uphold religious freedom in Islamic country.
I hope you can understand that.
Thanks.
...........................
Thanks bro. I'm for it and I have never opposed that and I can't oppose that and even this raging child namedd cruz congratulaes out of consolation saying that some pple don't understand it "bro." I love it. Dear, u see the problem with some pple is that they want to assign Islam to the purported posturing of every fanatic. Look, like the German radical and fanatic priest, what did he say? He said Christian children shul not pray with Muslim children? Is that Christianity? No, so I can't blame Christianity. Likewise, what was the topic about? A Muslim teacher telling her Muslim girl student not be close to non-Muslims. You see now? Both the Christian fanatic and the Muslim fanatic are in the same baot. Either we exonerate all religions from their abhorrent actions or blame all religions. But what happens, we say Islam is evil and bad bcoz of the fanatical teacher and refuse to admit the fanatical nature and behaviour of others. When Muslims resist that double standards, they become fanatical too. This is the contentious point.
However, all along I have never opposed religous freedom and that's why I want apostasy removed bcoz it doesn't help Muslims. This is digression since the topic was about Wahhabism and Islam misinterpretation, but do some pple do? They engage in Islam bashing rather than facing the issue at hand and providing critcal answers and solutions. What interesting is that whenevr they feel the heat, they resort to unothordox means of sweeping condemnation but don't realise that consolation can't be achieved thru duplicity and double standards. Non-Muslims shul be free and respected. Muslims shul be free and respected. Answered>
22/06 22:49:32
santiang wrote:
apalah yang kau merepek ni...
22/06 22:53:18
freewaay wrote:
Thanks Kadir for the answer,
See, no more arguments betweeen us, to God is our destiny.
I just feel uncomfortable the way you react to cruz, it made you looks like an intolerant muslim. Anyway, it was your right to defend what you believe.
And never act like a hypocrites, because God promise them the lowest Hell. Just a reminders for all of us.
Peace. Thank You. Good Night.
22/06 23:03:46
kadir wrote:
freeway wrote:
cruziero, I think Kadir is a pious sunni, you must respect him. If you are searching for a peacefulness in your life then I suggested you to convert to sunni.
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Freeway wrote:
Kadir,
You are really an exemplar of a righteous sunni.I salute you, keep up your good works
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Freeway wrote:
By quoting Islamonline.net, you show that you are a true Sunni and not a Wahhabi, see their fatwa at fatwa-online.com, this mufti have no common sense (no offence intended), just hoping that Saubi Arabia will reform, but the problem is the US refuse to reform Saudi since they supply US cheap oil.
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freeway wrote:
Do your holier-than-thou attitude is teach by the Qur'an, absolutely no! This is what Qur'an teach:
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Let me inore about the contradictory statements provided by you. Remember dear freeway, this debate is not about Christians and Muslims. It is about all pple. As I said b4, there is no single instance in which I condemned any religion in all my earlier entries, therefore, there can no be holier than thou. What I oppose is nothing BUT Islam bashing. That one I don't apologise but I don't have the right to blame Christianity or Hindusim or any other religion for that matter like some others do to Islam.
and you called other than God (idolizing prophet Muhammad). Proceed to next verse:
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It will be the height of deceit and utterly tragic if we interpret the Quran according to our liking. Idiloizing Muhammad is not there but respecting him and insisting in his absoluteness as the highest moral being is what can make you a Muslim in the 1st place. That's why you can't afford to love urself more than u can love him. It is a religious duty rather than idolatry. Again the verse handles earlier generations and how they divided religions though it was one. That's why I said I belive in Jesus and wait fo him like the way I adore Muhammad. These are simple facts and I don't want Muslim differences {I can read between the lines} to know which school we belong to, to come in and widen the chasm. Muhammad whether shiite, Sunnis or othwerise, he is the cenral point who acts their absolute human moral guardian.
22/06 23:05:52
freewaay wrote:
OK Kadir I get your point. But I wish this post ended peacefully. So it better if you can conclude decently without sparking another Islam bashing.
Peace.
22/06 23:10:11
kadir wrote:
freeway wrote:
I just feel uncomfortable the way you react to cruz, it made you looks like an intolerant muslim. Anyway, it was your right to defend what you believe.
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Thanks for ur advice. It was Calipha Umar who said I have found no better deed than good advice. Pliz note that if my response to cruz may make me intolerant, what will he look like when even after tearing into me, he descends into a low levl of Islam bashing and saying Europe knows how to fumigate stupid bunch like you Muslims? I requested that he shul provide a solution and that we end, but he refused and kul not afford to bring an idea except to quote his favourite tag: raging boys. To rage, it takes 2 hands to make a clap. Despite that, I extend peace to him and I demand him to respect Islam as a faith, he can criticse me as he wishes, but Islam can't be criticsed as a a faith like the way I can't criticise Christianity or any other religion however bad the pple who subscribe to it behave, after all believe all religions teach good. Thanks.
22/06 23:11:34
freewaay wrote:
Kadir.
I thinks its time that we disengage, before another round of Islam bashing begin.
6:68 And if you encounter those who make fun of Our revelations, then turn away from them until they move on to a different topic; and if the devil lets you forget, then do not sit after remembering with the wicked people.
6:69 And the righteous are not required to take responsibility for them, but a reminder so perhaps they will be aware.
Thanks.
22/06 23:30:15
kadir wrote:
frreeway wrote:
OK Kadir I get your point. But I wish this post ended peacefully. So it better if you can conclude decently without sparking another Islam bashing.
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Peace to all who have no solution but to bash Islam as a faith per se. Let me add the quote of freeway again,
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6:68 And if you encounter those who make fun of Our revelations, then turn away from them until they move on to a different topic; and if the devil lets you forget, then do not sit after remembering with the wicked people.
6:69 And the righteous are not required to take responsibility for them, but a reminder so perhaps they will be aware.
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Glory be to God and I wish all God's Blessings. Thanks
22/06 23:36:00
MalaysianManiac wrote:
Many of the arguments or "facts" peppered all over this place by people like zaki77, salmann21, kadir.. only proves their intellectual ability. Anybody can present their "facts" all they want, but if it's just words and talks.. it really doesn't amount to anything because although, I hear it.. I'm not actually listening.
I, for one and I think most of the people in this world believes action speaks louder than words. You can tell me how great the Prophet is, how enligthen you feel after meditating under a tree, or how close you feel to Jesus after nailing yourself to the cross but if you don't show me compassions and kindness to the poor, helpless, and people in general, it's pretty much sums up to nothing.
Like what RPK said, why do the Orang Asli became Christians but not Muslims? I believe they saw the compassions of the Christian missionaries and they could care less about the holier-than-thou attitude of the Muslim missionaries.
If anyone of you truly believes in your faith and LOVES the world so much that you can't wait to tell them the GREAT things about your faith, I suggest you try putting into ACTION by helping people, doing some charity... show some REAL COMPASSIONS.
Otherwise, people seldom care what you have to say.
Gandhi once said, "If it wasn't because of the Christians, I would have became a Christian."
go figure.
23/06 02:42:02
teo siew chin wrote:
some minds are closed due to fear not of the unknown but of the possibilities of ming-boggling variants. we are in a world spoilt for choices. life is so much simpler if you just choose one and stick to it, fight it's attack to the death even. i mean, go try pick up a pair of running shoes in 5 minutes flat.
and it's also compounded by the fact that if you declare you know all the answers, some wiseguy will swagger up and go "ahhh but have you asked all the questions?".
lucky for him, i'm cultured enough not to gorge his eyes out.
23/06 14:46:50
cruzeiro wrote:
teo siew chin wrote:
we are in a world spoilt for choices. life is so much simpler if you just choose one and stick to it, fight it's attack to the death even.
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Yes, Teo.
You mentioned the right word - choice.
It is cruel that some raving lunatics with their frothy God-talk, would choose to deny you that most basic human right.
23/06 15:44:37
teo siew chin wrote:
Cruzeiro - 'raving lunatics' mayhaps know no better because of 'pre-conditioning'.
how do we deal with rebels, heretics? i read somewhere, "...heretics, rebels shut us out of their circle but love and I have the wit to win - we drew a circle and led him in."
too bad there is only one Mother Theresa, and even she is gone.
23/06 16:17:34
cruzeiro wrote:
Teo,
It is a war of ideas.
Like I said earlier, there was a time when the ignoramuses controlled minds of other religious communities, and drew these lines for their circles - which the "faithful and fearful" meekly toed.
Thank goodness there were courageous people who rebelled against this tyranny, (redrew these "lines") and brought about the emancipation and revolution of ideas that have resulted in civilization as we know it.
Until and unless somebody from "within", is willing to challenge these lies that breed hatred in it's circles, the battle is lost - but the war goes on.
And guess what - despite what some may say, all of us are in it, whether we like it or not. This is what is today preached as the cliche - "a clash of civilisations"
(sorry if it sounds "dramatic", okay)
23/06 16:50:14
cruzeiro wrote:
But then, I'm sure you knew that .... just thought I'd put it up.
23/06 16:53:42
